Tokiomi’s real intention about Sakura.

I think this is the last change where we say about Tokiomi and what he did to Sakura.
https://www.facebook.com/TMTHEORY/posts/2413919575550098
https://www.facebook.com/TMTHEORY/posts/2435930946682294

Well, although is a fan of HF route, I always think Sakura’s tragedy is the…plot hole. To describe the setting lead to her tragedy, Nasu has to explain at least three points:

1/ Why Tokiomi sent her away.
2/ Why Sakura never asks anyone – especially is Rin – for help.
3/ What Sakura thinks about Shinji.

Nasu actually never explains clearly about anything among these points. I have to say that he usually tries to avoid explaining these points. That is why we have very many rumour and theories on the internet until now.
Another trouble with Nasu and Gen: instead of explaining everything in their novel, they have the fetish to explain it in …source material books, and interviews. It turns even the most simply points into something very…complex ( or confuse?).

However, today, we just says about Tokiomi.

Follow FZ novel, Tokiomi only says about his daughters in two scenes ( “battle with Kariya” and “the last meeting with Rin”). We know that, he:

• always think about “the Family’s duty.”.
• Thinks it is ok if his daughters fight ( and kills) each other in HGW.
• Wants each of them received the best training to become the great Magus/Family’s heir.
• Ordered his wife and Rin to forget Sakura after sent her away to Matou.
• In his heart, he doesn’t want his daughters to become Magus.
• He fears that Rin and Sakura can’t control their power, and will become the target of Sealing Designation.
• He leaves everything to Rin, and hope she will have a good choice.

I. 谢羽•Alter – XIA YU’S POINTS ABOUT TOKIOMI:

But Xie Yu Alter, after gaining more information from other sources like Case File, Source material books,… she writes about many theories like this:

1/- You need Magic Crest to study magecraft.
2/- He fears that his daughters will fight against each other (because of Tohsaka’s Magic Crest) if they still live in the same family.
3/- If he doesn’t send Sakura to become Matou’s heir, he only can marry her to someone ( when she still a young girl.)
4/- He doesn’t know and can’t imagine anything about Matou’s training.
5/- As same as Shirou, he mistakes and thinks Zouken is the good guy.

6/- Because Tokiomi loves Sakura, he will rescue her if he knows about Matou’s training method.

Well. I feel sorry when you introduce Xie Yu to me too late. I really like that girl and hope to have a discussion with her. Sadly, she doesn’t access to Zhihu anymore. I think she is Rin Tohsaka in the reality. Although she understands very clearly about Tokiomi, she tries so best to make herself believes that he will not agree with Zouken’s awful training.
We will analyze Xie Yu’s points now:

1/ You need Magic Crest to study magecraft:

Actually, you don’t need it. We saw many characters who study Magecraft while they aren’t the heir or don’t have Magic Crest already:

• Shirou Emiya.
• Heine ( Case File – vol 1)
• Sola-Ui
• Aozaki Touko, if I remember correctly.
  …

What the Magic Crest gives you actually:

• it claims that you are the Family’s heir.

• give your more many Magic Circuits to cast the spell.

• you can use these magecrafts which is trained by your ancestors – stored in the Magic Crest.

• 神秘 ( Mystery): The older Magic Crest, the more powerful its magecraft becomes. This ability will be lost if you split the Magic Crest into many parts.
  

And? That is all.

I have to remind you that, both Rin and Sakura finally have to study magecraft by themselves:

Rin: Kirei teaches her Bajiquan, and maybe some basic knowledge, but she has to read and study about Tohsaka’s secret magecraft by herself. That is why she lacks almost knowledge about HGW.

Sakura: Zouken never gives her Magic Crest, and almost never teaches her how to use her Hollow. After HF ending, she has to study to control her Elemental Hollow by herself. And she did it good ( Normal End).

Both Rin and Sakura finally have to study by themselves to control their power.

2/- He fears that his daughters will fight against each other (because of Tohsaka’s Magic Crest) if they still live in the same family.

He never mentions it in FZ. Xie Yu actually gained this idea when she’s reading Mahoutsukai No Yoru. Instead, he says it is fate and glory if his daughters fight against each other because of HGW:

“There is no such thing as a confrontation without sorrow.”

Not only that, he reminds Rin again in the last meeting with her:

“Rin, the Holy Grail will appear eventually. It is our duty as the Tōsaka family to win it. More importantly – if you want to be a magus, you can’t avoid it.”

Xie Yu tries her best to describe that Tokiomi does everything he could to prevent Rin-Sakura from killing each other:

• Two sisters will kill each other because of Magic Crest, if they in the same family.
• “ he says it is ok if they fight against each other. He doesn’t say it is ok if they kill each other.”.
• He knows his daughters love each other. So, they will not fight against each other.
• Under Tokiomi’s knowledge, it still 60 years until the next HGW.

Well. At first, in the Magus world, it is very very normal if you kill, torture, experiment and even rapes your enemies. They do it everytime. Even Rin in FSN usually mocks Shirou because he tries to win HGW but not kill Masters. Of course, Tokiomi doesn’t force them to kill each other. But if they do, he doesn’t mind. He actually says Rin shouldn’t avoid HGW ( and fights or kills Sakura) if she wants to become Magus.

We don’t have any evidence that Tokiomi knows or cares about his daughters love each other or not. But, if he knows, why he fears that these sisters will fight each other to win just Magic Crest, but believe they will side by side to win the more precious Holy Grail ( The Root)??? Not only that, he ordered Rin to forget Sakura, and still believe that they still love and will not become each other’s enemy in the future? What is this logic?

The next HGW is 60 years after? No problem. Very many Magus live for one-two centuries.
= > Summary, in FZ, he never mentions about sisters’ love or sisters’ war of Magic Crest.

3/ Marriage:

Xia Yu gain this idea when reading about Sola-Ui. Well, sooner or later, your children will marry someone. It is very normal.

But why she thinks that let Sakura marries some other Magus’s heir will help to protect her? I don’t know. From the beginning, Magic Crest or the Family’s heir isn’t protecting anyone, especially if they are Sealing Designation. Norikata has Magic Crest and is the heir of Emiya family, and he still got Sealing Designation, and is hunted by Mage Association.

Norikata, the Family heir, has Magic Crest, and Association still gives him Sealing Designation and hunts him.

4/ Tokiomi doesn’t know and can’t imagine Matou’s training method:

Xia Yu gets this idea while reading through Aozaki Aoko when reading Mahoutsukai No Yoru. And she thought that only Waver can imagine how to train other Magus’s magecraft.
Actually, in Nasuverse’s Magus world, exist two logics to imagine about the training:

• Look at the magecraft, and use your knowledge to imagine its method.
• The stronger magecraft, the more inhuman training you have to get through to train it.

If we read FSN and Case File, we will see many characters in there usually see each other’s magecraft and tries to imagine “ how can we train it” , “ how awful they have to get through” with their own knowledge:

• Reines just read some information about HGW4, and she says the Matou’ method ( put worms in the Magus’body) is the very awful way. She even compares the Matou’s training to what these Princesses of Gold and Silver get through, although they princesses more beautiful than the worms magecraft very much.
• Zouken never goes to Einzbern’s workshop, but he can imagine what they treated Illya as very inhuman. He actually tried to copy Einzbern’s method when creating Sakura become the Black Grail.
• Illya looks at how Rin uses her jewel, and explains to Shirou what is her magecraft.
• And more important: Everything you know about Sakura’s torturing is from Kirei. He never sees the worm pit. He just checks her body – as same as when he cured Kariya – and can say to you that she is raped by worms in a very cruel way.

Kirei Kotomine – never seen the worms pit or see how Zouken tortures Sakura. But thank to his knowledge, he still look at Sakura’s worms and report to you many thing about her’s suffering.

“ If he knows about how Zouken train Sakura, he will rescue her.”
Wait wait. From the beginning, anyone of us really know how Zouken trained Sakura?

Remember, until now, we actually never know exactly how Sakura is treated in the worms pit. Both Nasu and Gen never say about it clearly. We only know existed a “ sea of worms”( FSN) and “ Sakura is chained”(FZ) in there. Zouken only metioned that Sakura gets through “ thousand of tortures”. What you see in anime or FZ manga, actually it just the director/mangaka’s imagination. But it isn’t prevent us to understand that she is treated very cruel.

Matou, at first, was the Tohsaka’s ally. Then they become the rival and at war against each other for at least two times ( HGW2 and HGW3). Their standard magecraft is worms. While Reines can understand how awful it is just with some papers, and Kirei just by look at Sakura’s worms. How can Tohsaka family fights against that enemy for 200 years while still can’t imagine anything about their magecraft?

5/ Tokiomi think Zouken is the good guy:

Both in FZ and FSN, Kirei says that Tokiomi warning him about Zouken. “ He is very dangerous”, “ he is a vampire who sucks blood from the young boys in his basement.”.

From the beginning, Tokiomi never thinks Zouken is the good guy at all.

II. TOKIOMI’S REAL INTENTION ABOUT SAKURA:

Does Tokiomi love Sakura? What is his intention about Matou’s training? Actually, Gen explained everything, but in the…Interview of France during 2013 ( l’Épitanime 2013). And Tokiomi’s real intention actually is very very simple.

Yeah. I say it before. They turn even some simply points become something very complex just with this fetish “ if you want to know, read my interviews or source material books”. Don’t know why Xia Yu and every Chinese on Zhihu never mentions this interview. But, Gen answered that:

“ TMF : Did Tokiomi know what Sakura was going through after she was adopted by MATŌ?

U : What is important for Tokiomi is not filiation but magical progression in his family. So he is aware of literally throwing away (abandoning) his daughter.
One can imagine that Tokiomi tells himself that, through his darling daughter, he will come to have superior thaumaturgical powers.

Tokiomi knew that Sakura was going to suffer, but for him, it would allow him to become a real mage. As long as it increased the thaumaturgical potential of his family, he had no problem with Sakura’s treatments at MATŌ.
However, if he had known Sakura’s fate, to be a womb * for Zōken, he would have refused. He also imagined that if things went too far, Sakura could stop Zōken by herself. Unconsciously, even if he never said it, the fight between Sakura and Rin at the end of Heaven’s Feel was for him the best thing that could happen to TŌSAKA. Aoi, on the other hand, knew nothing.”

Compare what Gen answered in the interview and what we know in the novel. We can summary about Tokiomi like this:

• Although Tokiomi loves his daughters, he finally will follow the family’s interest. But he always confuses about these feeling. That is why he finally let Rin be free to choose for her life.
• He wants his daughter received the best training to become the great Magus ( receive Magic Crest, and becomes the Families’ heirs).
• Every torturing is ok, as long as it helps his daughters become stronger/ the greater Magus.
• He only refuses these methods which “ doesn’t help my daughter stronger.”.

= > Conclusion:

• Let the worm rape and took Sakura’s virgin when she just five years old, to begin the training? Ok.
• “ Give your body to the thousands of worms during 11 years – Zouken say”? Ok.
• Black Grail? Maybe Ok.
• “ The thousand of torturing – Zouken says”? Ok.
• Rin and Sakura killing each other? Ok. If they want to kill.
• Shinji rapes Sakura? Nope. Waste her time.
• Zouken takes Sakura body as his new body? Nope.
• Zouken forces Sakura to give birth, but doesn’t teach magecraft to her? Nope.

Summary, Tokiomi will never change his mind even if Kariya says something like “ they let the worms rape Sakura.”. But he will change his mind if Kariya says “ Zouken never want to teach magecraft to your daughter.”. The trouble is even Kariya doesn’t know Zouken’s intention,too.

Tokiomi as same as Norikata. They have a very twist love of Magus. Look at Norikata’s case. When the Church and Association massacring the island, he is very worry if his son was still safe. But he tries very hard in researching the potion which can turn Kiritsugu to… Dead Apostle to success the family’s magecraft. Yeah, he fears someone will kill her son, but think it is ok if his son becomes the monster and living in a nightmare.

The Gen’s answer is explained why Tokiomi always is described as the good father in other work,too:

• Hanafuda minigame: He is angry when see Sakura fighting in HGW4, and ask Zouken to give his daughter back.
• Sound Drama Stardust Operreta: Tokiomi shows his love to Sakura, and says “Sakura, are you treated well in that family? You look pretty fine. That is good.”

Xia Yu uses these two pieces of evidence to describe that, because Tokiomi loves Sakura, he will rescue her if he knows that she is worms raped. Well, actually, they Typemoon is trolling us:

• In Hanafuda game: Tokiomi angry not because Sakura is put in a dangerous situation. He angry because Zouken let her joins the war while still not training her becomes the strong Magus. If you want my daughter to fight, do it after you trained her good enough. That is his logic.
• in Drama: We remember that Sakura’s hair and eyes are the evidence of all torturing she endured during 11 years. Every Sakura’s fans – include Sudou – always haunted by it. And Tokiomi still says “ You look pretty fine”. That means he doesn’t have any matter with these experiment at all.

He actually mean: Only let my daughter join the war after when you trained her.

My, I hate it. Why Gen didn’t simply write it in the novel instead of that interview???

• This information shows us how funny Tokiomi thinking, too. Matou is different to Yggdmillennia. Yggdmillennia is a great family that need more manpower. That is why they’re welcome many Magus family who is weak or declining, and help to improve them.It is different with Matou, their bloodline is declining. They need someone to help them to revive the bloodline – in another word, give birth to them these children who have Magic Circuit. From the beginning, send a girl to them mean “ please, rape her and force her to give birth as you want.” already. In order to revive their blood, they don’t really need to teach magecraft to your daughter from the beginning. It is more terrible when we read HF route and know that Zouken ready to kill Sakura right after she gives birth the Matou’s child. He just stopped his original plan because Sakura is too good Black Grail.

III. BUT WHAT ABOUT SEALING DESIGNATION?

As I say above. Association doesn’t try to find who worth enough to become Sealing Designation. Rin even goes to study in their school, and they don’t even care to check her Element. If they really try to find, Rin – who lives alone in Tohsaka family and working for them – is captured by them from long ago already.

The trouble only occurs if you can’t control your power. In that situation, you will be killed to “ keep Magecraft in secret” before even they give your Sealing Designation. And I say you above, actually both Rin and Sakura study by themselves to control their power, with very little help from Kirei and Church. Tokiomi maybe has a concern about it. But if it is too serious, he never let Rin lives alone in the Tohsaka family, he will let someone adopts her instead.
Summary: “ Control it” and “ master it” is a too different concept. That is all.

And, it is very funny that, the more Sanda writes Case File – under the help of Nasu – the less unique of Sakura’ Hollow is. Until now, we have totally three persons who have Hollow: Sakura, Lev Lainur and Trisha Fellow.

It is more shocking when knowing that Trisha gains Element Hollow THROUGH TRAINING. While Sealing Designation only cares about these “special thaumaturgical abilities which cannot be acquired through the study”. That means no one care about Sakura’s Hollow anymore.

Trisha Fellow: changed her Element from Water to Hollow; as same as Sakura is forced to change from Hollow to Water.

IV. BUT, WHY NASU SAYS TOKIOMI IS BETTER FATHER IN THE MAGUS WORLD?

Yeah. He and Norikata really are better father compare to other Magus father. Do you want to know what the average Magus father did to their children?
Byron Iselma finds his way to reach the Root by experiment with both of his daughter. Princesses of God and Silver get through the training which as terrible as Matou’s worms. He finally killed one of his daughters, and think it is totally ok. He doesn’t care. Yes.

This is the only difference between the “ good Magus father” and the “ average Magus father.”:

Lord Byron: sees his daughters as the experimental things, cuts one of them to dead, and still thinks it is totally ok.

• Average father: Please, gangrape and torture my daughter as you want, to turn her become a good tool for my interest.
• Good father: Please, gangrape and torture my daughter as you want, to turn her become the superman for her sake.
  

Welcome you to “ the father day”. That is the only difference between them.

Xia Yu thinks that “ he loves me” = “ he is the good father”. She is really kind and simple girl.
Actually, “ he/she loves you” doesn’t mean anything. We can see very many crazy fans who love and ready to kill their idol. Remember, Rin is very loved Sakura, but she isn’t joking when killing her on day 9, we even have the bad end about it. Aoi loves Sakura, and Kariya uses her face to warning her about what is happening to Sakura,too. But she finally chooses her husband more than her daughter. FZ source material even confirms that has something wrong with her.

Conclusion:

• Tokiomi loves Sakura? Yes.
• Tokiomi is the good father?

If you feel ok with infant rape, gangrape and torture the 5 years old girl “ to turn her become the superman”. Yeah, he is the lovely and good dad.

But, yeah, he really loves his daughters.